Aimee K
Fourteen of Twelve?
After the death of President Nelson the First Presidency was dissolved and both counselors returned the the Quorum of the Twelve.
During the sustaining portion of the 2025 October General Conference the 14 remaining Apostles were sustained. I assumed that they would sustain Elder Oaks as church president, he being next in line. However a new church president was not sustained and the First Presidency remains unorganized.
Perhaps it was decided to wait for reorganization until after the funeral for President Nelson, which is tomorrow, 07 October 2025.
What is the Law?
“Then it shall be made known what you shall do. And all things shall be done by common consent in the church, by much prayer and faith, for all things you shall receive by faith.”
D&C 26:2
“For all things must be done in order, and by common consent in the church, by the prayer of faith. And you shall settle all these things according to the covenants of the church…”
D&C 28:13
Doctrine and Covenants section 107 outlines the offices and organization of the church and is the canonized, guiding document for the structure of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints accepted by common consent.
Of the Melchizedek Priesthood, three Presiding High Priests, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church.
The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ… and they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three presidents previously mentioned.”
D&C 107:21–24
I can assure you that the Lord is EXACT. Precise even.
Yea, the word came unto them that it must be fulfilled, yea, that one jot nor tittle should not pass away till it should all be fulfilled.
3 Nephi 1:25
In searching the words “common consent” and “sustain” I found the following story from Denver Snuffer.
Common Consent
My car insisted it was 5:36 this morning as I drove my daughter to Seminary. The Honda was not yet in on the collective conspiracy to sustain the loss of an hour by our common consent.
My daughter got out the owner’s manual while we were driving and helped me convince the car to sustain the new hour. Now the Honda is also in on the conspiracy by common consent to change our bearings in the universe.
It still gets light and dark as before, but we call it something different. Happily, the Honda does not contradict that illusion anymore.
We cannot control the reality in which we live, but we can use our collective agreements to pretend it is otherwise. Now we awake and arise at a different time, but call it an hour later. Common consent is a powerful thing. It can be used to change how we look at time itself.
Denver Snuffer, 15 March 2010 (emphasis added)
How to Boil a Frog
Where do we get this idea that the President of the church is also a prophet? I can tell you, I’ve gone back into the General Conference archives and found when it started.
Brigham Young was first sustained as “prophet, seer and revelator” in October 1872. Prior to that he was sustained only as “President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints” during General Conference.
Also sustained as “prophet, seer and revelator” were the first and second counselors of the First Presidency under Brigham Young.
Other than the change in language regarding the official title in which the body of the church sustained them, it was the first and only mention during conference that Brigham was a “prophet”.
After Brigham’s death in August 1877 the seat of the President remained empty until John Taylor was installed in 1880.
John Taylor’s first conference as church president he was sustained only “as President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, as one of the Twelve Apostles, and of the Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”
However, during that same conference Elder Moses Thatcher, a member of the twelve declared, “I know that he [Taylor] is led to-day by the revelations of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I can bear my testimony that when you raise your hands to sustain him as a Prophet, Seer and Revelator, that God hears and answers your prayers.” April 1880
The thing is, John Taylor HAD NOT been sustained as “prophet, seer and revelator” at his first conference as president of the church. Additionally Thatcher insidiously linked that if they were to sustain Taylor as such, God would hear and answer their prayers! Good grief!
The following conference in October 1880 the church returned to the practice of sustaining the church president as “prophet, seer, and revelator” but only the president alone. John Taylor’s counselors were never sustained as “prophet, seer, and revelator” during his tenure.
Under Wilford Woodruff the practice of sustaining the First Presidency counselors as “prophet, seer, and revelator” was brought back, but he also expanded the title to apply to the members of the quorum of the twelve apostles for the first time. Woodruff presided at conferences from April 1889 to April 1898.
At the first General Conference with Woodruff at the helm John W. Taylor wanted to reiterate the title transfer between his father and Wilford Woodruff saying,
I know that John Taylor was a prophet and that Wilford Woodruff is a Prophet, Seer and Revelator.
I scanned through various General Conference records and found similar language first from various mission presidents bearing testimony of the title. This happened once, maybe twice during a conference.
“I know that the man who stands at the head of this Church is a prophet, seer and revelator, and those who stand with him are the same.”
–Elder Ben E. Rich, President of the Southern States Mission, April 1905“…as enunciated by our beloved prophet, seer and revelator this morning.”
–Elder Walter P. Monson, President of the Eastern States Mission, April 1915.
As time progressed I noticed that the people citing the title “prophet, seer, and revelator” to praise the president had higher and higher offices in the church.
And they started expounded upon this idea of additional power granted in sustaining.
” If we are one, really one, bringing together all of our wills and our forces of character, and our powers, and our abilities into harmony with the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of God on earth at this time, there is nothing which is beyond our power in righteousness.”
J. Ruben Clark, First Counselor in the First Presidency, October 1943
Then a shift…in October 1943 when Marion G. Romney referred to “living prophets” plural.
The following conference, April 1944, the Patriarch to the Church, Elder Joseph F. Smith first referred to a “living prophet” (singular) in his talk without actually naming Heber J. Grant.
Next conference, in October 1944, Mark E Peterson expounded greatly upon the idea of sustaining “prophet, seer, and revelator” :
“During this conference we have raised our hands and sustained the authorities of this Church: when we sustained Heber J. Grant as president, we took a vote also to sustain him as prophet, seer, and revelator. Then we voted to sustain the counselors in the First Presidency, and the Twelve, and the Patriarch, and after we had thus voted, we took an entirely different vote. This time we sustained this group of men as prophets, seers, and revelators, in addition to their positions of membership in the Twelve, the Patriarch, or as counselors in the First Presidency.
Some people ask: “When is a prophet really a prophet?” You remember the reply that is frequently given, that is, that a prophet is a prophet when he speaks by the power of his office.
I want to tell you brethren that the program of the Church that has been given to you has been provided to you officially by these presiding brethren whom you have sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators.
This program has been given to you officially by them, functioning in their official capacity. Therefore what right do we have to say that this part of the program is not necessary, or that part of the program is not necessary? [ …] And if we do not believe in the program of his Church, can we say that we are truly and honestly followers of the lowly Nazarene?
Mark E Peterson, Council of the Twelve Apostles, Oct 1944
Exposure to new ideas, little by little, bits at a time, introducing new titles, expounding upon the importance of sustaining the titles.
All of this subtle groundwork laid over the course of 83 years culminated in a big reveal in April 1955; one that was bold and unequivocal. The President of the Church was a prophet in very being.
Recently I heard a famous character say, “What the world needs today is a prophet.” That was a wise statement, but it is not exactly correct The things the peoples of the world need today are ears to hear the living prophet, because we already have one. He has been sent by Almighty God, not only to the members of the Church, but also to you other good people who are seeing and hearing this service by television and hearing it over the radio. Most of the last three quarters of an hour that prophet has been standing before you, if you have been where you could see into this session. If you nave not seen him, you have heard his voice. President David O. McKay is a prophet of the Living God. If you are the type of person who would have believed that Moses was a prophet, had you lived in his day, you know that President McKay is a prophet.
Marion G. Romney, April 1955
In April 1844 General Conference “prophet” is mentioned 2 times. “false prophet” is mentioned also 2 times. 4 total.
In April 1955 the word “prophet” was mentioned 59 times. I’m sure that today the count is significantly higher.
Inventing a “Living Prophet” out of thin air through years of grooming and sustaining vote was not enough. A propaganda campaign was launched against the children.
In 1987 Children’s primary song “Follow the Prophet” was commissioned and later published in the Children’s Songbook, copyright 1989.
Duane Hiatt was commissioned to write the song and was given three guidelines of what they were looking for:
- Be about Old Testament prophets
- Have the feeling of a Jewish folk song
- Make it happy and upbeat
For as common as the phrase has become, “follow the prophet” is found NOWHERE in scripture.
Asked Point Blank
Joseph F. Smith was asked, “Are you a prophet?” by the Senate Committee in the Smoot hearings. He responded, “My people sustain me as such.”
Both President David O. McKay and Harold B Lee answered the question with a challenge, “Look me in the eye and tell me I’m not a prophet.”
Larry King asked Gordon B. Hinckley point blank, “Are you a prophet?”
He responded with, “I am sustained as such.“
Looking at the CNN transcript of this interview now more than 27 years later, that part, so vivid in my memory because it was so jarring, is inexplicably missing. It may have been carefully edited out because I am not the only one who remembers him saying this.
Though evidence for that particular comment exists only in the contemporary personal journals of those who heard it, it wasn’t an isolated incident. Hinckely was recorded saying something very similar earlier that same year.
SF GATE Interview, 13 April 1997
A: Well, in the first place, it’s the restoration itself. The Catholic Church is here, the Protestant churches are outgrowths from the Catholic Church. We are not part of the Catholic Church, and we’re not protesting anything. We say that we are a restoration of the church that existed anciently, and that’s the reason we have the name “Latter-day Saints.” In the early days of the church, back in the days of the Apostles, they were called saints as Christians. We’re the latter-day saints. And that’s one thing that’s different. Modern revelation. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, we believe he has yet to reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. So, we believe in the principle of continuous revelations.
Q: You are the president, prophet, seer and revelator of the Mormon Church?
A: I am so sustained, yes. (Laughter)
Six Months: NO President
The president of the church MUST be sustained by the common consent of the church in order to be recognized as valid. Regardless of what you’re told to the contrary, that’s according to D&C 107 the accepted, canonized, organizing direction for the church.
The president of the church derives his title of “prophet, seer, and revelator” by virtue of the sustaining vote of the body of the church.
Leadership opted to wait until after the funeral for President Nelson.
After the death of President Monson in January 2018 I asked God, in all sincerity, to confirm that Nelson was His guy. The next prophet, duly ordained and in an unbroken chain of authority from Joseph.
The answer I got completely changed the trajectory of my life.
It was in that space where nothing had been announced and no one had been sustained as anything.
Since being sustained in his office in April 2018, if people asked, “Is President Nelson a prophet?” God could certainly give them the answer they were hoping to hear. Yes…[he is sustained as such].
But Oaks is a different matter. He is not president until he is sustained by the body of the church in April 2026.
Six months from now.
I wonder how God will answer those who pray in sincerity to know if Oaks is THE prophet in the meantime.
